Please summarise your approach.
I am selling a small proportion. What are you doing?
About the Author
WarrantStar
I am a keen & experienced investor. I love my spread sheets, and like to think that I know what I am doing. I wouldn't be offended to be described as a bit geeky. Mostly I do well, but I always strive to do better. Married male. Born 1957 England. Good career in industry for 35 years. Been successfully investing for about 30 years. I chose to retire from salaried employment at age 57 to look after my investments. I consider myself to be quite analytical / logical / mathematical, but also take into account how the world is likely to change & how people behave. I always follow my processes before taking action. more »
21 comments
Rusty2
I sold some a few weeks ago so I have more in cash so if I find ones at the right price then I will pick them up. Some big falls today. Looking to buy new shares or get back into some I have sold.
Not sure about your point TangoDoc, all the financial sites that have a vote to leave or stay, about 60% are for leaving, maybe they are over 50 and uneducated? In fact all the websites I have come across the majority are for leaving. I think some of anger is from these one sided arguements from finciancial bodies and threats about what will happen, Obama made me the most angry. Immigration has affected many places you only have to look at towns like Boston how 6,000 immigrants has affected it, this is only going to get worse with the minimum wage increasing considerably over the next 4 years. I think there are too many people in this country, France has less than half our population density.
snickers
"decisions based on reproducible scientific fact,"
Unfortunately we'll be unable to replicate, or rerun, the experiment of giving ourselves up to some kind of (hopefully) benign dictatorship, just in case our fellow citizens might get to elect a government we don't agree with at some point. & that it really is benign, & that it stays benign when we have no democratic leverage over it. The EU project is not a scientific experiment, it's a witches brew.
TangoDoc
I have no knowledge of Boston but can speak with some authority about Leicester, having served as a magistrate for some years. Something like 45% of the city's population originate from the Indian subcontinent, about 15% from the Caribbean and, with a few wrinkles, multiculturalism works well and the city thrives. It boasts two excellent Universities, the Leicester Tigers, Leicester City FC, and a rich and diverse cultural life with all the added flavours that incorporate Diwali and a Caribbean Carnival. It's a good place to live and compares very favourably with other places that could probably use a little fresh blood and enterprise.
A month ago, I travelled by train from Lille to Angouleme. You're right; France is empty. I wouldn't want to live there either. Some of my ancestors came from Ireland because they were starving to death and my wife's from Paris in the 17th century because of religious persecution. My great grandmother had to be dragged away from Boston to marry a man from March.
Rusty2
There are different sorts of immigration, I just feel we need some control. Immigration in Leicester had some sort of control. How can you plan for schools, hospitals etc when you don't know how many are going to turn up or leave?
France is not empty, it is compared to England though. I have been to densely populated countries and its not a good thing. Its one reason I left the South East of England. With the EU we will be getting more laws we can't opt out of, some will suit the majority but they won't be tailored to our requirements, we will have very little say. Even now we can't decide what goods we charge VAT on.
TangoDoc
I have no idea what sort of control you think was applied to Leicester but none I know of. In terms of balancing the demands of the population to supply of services, first of all, recent immigrants tend to be healthy and the only increase in demand is maternity and child health since they are usually of child bearing age. The figures make it very plain that the revenue from their taxes far exceeds the cost they inflict. How we deal with local matters is for our politicians to resolve.
How does it affect you personally that you can't set your own level of VAT? Taxes have to be raised to keep this sophisticated state running and avoiding the appalling poverty traps seen in so many parts of the world, including, to their eternal shame, the USA. It is a tough call to decide whether to tax wages more than spending or vice versa. People who resent taxes never seem to resent the benefits of living in a state that takes the trouble to share the wealth out, including to the sick, the disabled and the frankly inept. I've watched families deal with cerebral palsy, autism and other handicaps and I don't want to live in a state that can't be kind to those. The other thing about taxes is of course that the money isn't thrown away by governments; it is spent-mostly on wages-and thus recycled. If you look at a pie chart of what governments spend on our behalf, the tiny fragment that goes to support our EU membership is 0.37%.
Many of the EU laws we can't opt out of protect me from far more powerful people I trust even less.
Ultimately though, I've become increasingly fond of a world that depends less every year on raising barriers between "us" and "them". When I was a kid you were forced to choose between Cowboys and Indians. It was illegal to be gay and at 11 you were branded "Grammar" or "Secondary Modern". It was all crap. People are just people. They all want the same things. Unless we learn to work in union for common causes, we will all go down separately.
Rusty2
I was talking about control of immigration, although the last Labour Goverment did not seem to bother. Now there is no control, almost anyone who Lives in the EU can come here.My example of VAT ws just to illistrate that tax control is going away from the uK and will be more control by the EU. I did not say we should not have it, really all those examples about poor countries and USA are red herrings. I think there are more barrieers now than years ago what with Health and Safety, can't do this or that, people are even scared to send their kids to school alone or let play outside their property. Talk about nanny state.
Carey Blunt
TangoDoc - Couldn't agree more.
Why do we feel we need a UK committee to decide on VAT levels on products in this country as opposed to an EU committe with UK members? Why do we need the hassle and expense of doing it all on-shore? do we think we are somehow better at it than everyone else?
The general idea is that all member states get some say into decisions and then as a result we make a decision to do it one way and then we all get on with it. The alternative is that each country makes its own rules on VAT levels and what products it applies those levels to. This is confusing and difficult to manage if you are a company that works across multiple countries which pushes up the cost to do business which makes us all worse off.
The general point being - we are all better off working together than seperately.
Is the EU a perfect mechanism? No
Do I think its undemocratic in parts and needs reforming? Yes
Do I think we can influence it from outside? Definitely not.
TangoDoc
Aaah! The "nanny state". Never far away. I still work part-time as a freelance Occupational Health Advisor and you may be comforted to know that, despite all the Health and Safety regs, the good old British working man is still poking his fingers into electrical sockets and losing his thumbs on bench saws and what they do with acetone, you'd never believe!
Rusty2
Think that is wrong. Just look at bananas and cucumbers, how much time and money was completely wasted on them, so much for saving money. VAT is just the start soon we will all have the same tax. VAT ruling was confusing thats why we got in trouble with solar panels, apparently we should have been charging VAT at 20%, so much for reducing our carbon emissions, so again your logic does not work. As for members in the EU our biggest party is UKIP. Yes we will have a say but it will be very small proportion, its a bit like the Liberal Democrats in our government, how much power do they have. I think a lot EU countries want the market place but not to be governed by EU.
Carey Blunt
I don't remember there being an awful lot of trouble about solar panels? Sounds like a Daily Mail headline to me. Just like bananas and cucumbers - thanks for mentioning them :-)
Lets take an actual real example about energy efficiency. The energy efficiency rating that you get on fridges and hoovers and stuff - this was introduced across the EU to force manufacturers to apply ever stricter standards to their goods. They have to reduce energy usage from the appliances they make while making them more efficient. This rule gets set once and then everyone has to comply with it.
The result is that manufacturers have to innovate and improve their products, energy usage goes down, efficiency goes up both and we all win in terms of both money and the environment.
Without this, each country only has to comply with their own varying standards in this area which mostly wouldn't exist and so no-one would bother and so there would be no innovation and no-one does anything to reduce energy usage or improve the environment.
The general message being - we are generally better off working together towards common goals than working seperately. Surely?
I haven't seen any arguments that stack up regarding EU regulation or economics - it always comes down to excuses rather than own up to it actually being about immigration.
Rusty2
They may reduce energy and it will cost manufacturers money no doubt, so then they will cut corners ealsewhere, no wonder goods don't last so long these days, how much energy is wasted in that not to mention how much it will cost you, so you may save a few £s on energy, so what. So much for the enviroment when things are not repaired anymore but dumped. Following your arguement through we should all have the same taxes, drive on the same side of the road, have Euros and can't drink pints.
Carey Blunt
yes - can't see anything wrong with that vision really, don't confuse fear of change with it being a bad idea. You have failed to hit on any of the important negatives about the EU like the level of input into decisions, the law, democractic election of representatives. Whether we drink pints or half litres or pay in Euros is just about the sizes of glasses and shape of (increasingly) redundant coins. Thats not important stuff compared with the things I mentioned.
Following the argument the opposite way we would all be better if we broke the United Kingdom down as well. Why not, if we are all better when we are divided by lines on a map or bodies of water?
Why not break Scotland into Clans and reinstate the kingdoms of Mercia, Northumbria, Wessex etc in England?
People are always better working together for a common good than in small tribal factions.
Rusty2
Thank you very much but don't tell me what to do. Euros is not just about coins. As for breaking down the UK no I don't think so, we are the UK and thats how I want it to stay not become some European state.
AnonymousUser858
Can we please stop the off topic stuff - this is an investment website. What is on topic here is
- how will the outcome of the referendum affect the investment environment within which we operate
- what are we doing to prepare for or mitigate against the outcome
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What is off topic is TangoDoc's childish insults and third form name calling about people who are pro-exit being impotent, badly educated and angry. If that is the level of his analysis and debate then I strongly suggest he ceases and desists. The Remain camp seems determined to claim the moral high ground and to patronise and condescend rather than to try to understand. It is a serious failing in their approach and TangoDoc should stop wallowing in it.
If he really wants a serious discussion I'd be happy to oblige but this is not the right place and I am disinclined to discuss with someone who starts by insulting those who disagree with him, so he'd have to be change that behaviour if he wants a discussion.
Carey Blunt
Herbie - I just re-read it and at no point in that thread did I tell you what to do. I was just putting an opposite argument - which I think is fair enough. Nothing offensive was said and I hope no offense was taken :-)
But I take Tournesol's point about staying on topic. For the record i've sold anything that I think will be effected by either a weak level of sterling or where I think a bad relationship with Europe will have an impact on future earnings.
I've also sold things which I don't think will actually be effected by Brexit but which others are clearly worrying that they will - car dealerships for example, even though I think they represent good value.
I'm sticking with anything where I think the value or growth is underpinned by sales/dealings in America or anywhere else in the world.
AnonymousUser858
As posted elsewhere on Stockopedia I have sold a number of my previous holdings and am now 40% in cash. I held onto most of my prefs - so have 40% in a range of prefs - mostly banks and other financials - on the basis that they produce a solid yield which is unlikely to change. If however it starts to look like they are being sucked down with the rest I will not hesitate to sell at least some of these. I have 20% in various ords - which I thought were special situation type stuff - eg Breedon which is awaiting the all clear for a major acquisition which should boost the price.
I am however actively considering further selling - but there again I always am.
Rusty2
Its ok I was getting a bit wound up, yes think its best to stick to investments. I regret not selling Cambria Automobiles (LON:CAMB), think that has fallen because theres likey to be a recession if we do leave, recessions not good for car dealers or housebuilders. I have not sold much recently, I did take some profits a while ago, was looking to buy but now it seems we may vote to leave so not so sure.
TangoDoc
tournesol, it was supposed to be a joke and you will note that I stated that " I wouldn't know". I had not realised that that this group was only serious and had been led astray by responses to some other frivolous posts I have made. I stand corrected.
To be serious, it does seem to me that the media's suggestion that Brexit is increasingly likely has been accompanied by a steady fall in prices. Of course, there is always the factor of uncertainty that might be driving things down but what should we make of the market fear? If the mere possibility of Brexit cases this reaction, someone out there thinks it's not a financially wise move. Does that not mean anything?
I made no reference to supporters of Brexit being 'uneducated' but referred to a poll done last week showing age distribution and that mentioned measurable 'qualifications'. I didn't invent it; take a look at today's Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/21/eu-referendum-who-in-britain-wants-to-leave-and-who-wants-to-rem/
I think the age differential is worth thinking about. Should those of us who, being older and particularly those retired voters have less to lose by leaving the EU be able to swing the vote away from the young who will be saddled with making the decision work?
